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Talk:Peace and Harmony
Note that spells that must target the caster or all party members will end Peace and Harmony prematurely. ?? so will heal party end it? Peace_a I wrote that, didn't I? Try it yourself. --Kenthar 03:54, 15 November 2005 (UTC) Do life stealing or health degeneration hexes end Peace and Harmony? Forget about it. Most of them are "spells that target a foe". -- 19:32, 3 March 2006 (CST) Since it ends on "spells", wouldn't it be good to use it on a Ranger or energy-based Warrior too? --theeth 19:49, 3 March 2006 (CST) :Won't work well. The "deals damage to a foe" part f*cks it up. The only way to harm a foe without ending P&H it is non-spell skills that do not cause damage. Vampiric Touch springs to mind as one example. Or transfer a condition with Plague Signet or Plague Touch. -- 20:21, 3 March 2006 (CST) ::There's a few other weirdos like what Tetris L was mentioning. Chillblains, minions, degen wells. So possibly but hard. Maybe there's a Mo/Ne or Ne/Mo combo in there somewhere. -JoDiamonds 21:27, 3 March 2006 (CST) :::Possibly a duo (or quadro), both spamming Vamp Touch and Barbed signet? Of course, one can also lay down traps and such now, so maybe 2 N/R and 2 N/Mo... --Bishop 22:34, 3 March 2006 (CST) Nice, my favourite Monk elite has just become even better! :D --Eightyfour-onesevenfive 02:07, 4 March 2006 (CST) :Lol, this was your favorite? Well, it FINALLY might be worth using, if you provide it for numerous monks. I can see how it'd be handy with enough monks on a team, as it grants a pip to each, and can be maintained now on many. With a +20% enchanting staff, 15 divine favour and Blessed Aura running you could get 144 second P&H, which would allow you to maintain it on 8 monks. On a 3 monk backline you could thus spend a mere tenth of a pip to give 2 other monks a pip each, and get a free blessed aura for yourself in the bargain. That's not a bad investment, but I don't think it's anything to write home about.--Epinephrine 03:17, 4 March 2006 (CST) ::Yes, indeed, my favourite. :) I may not play the most effective monk this way, but just casting P&H on myself and spamming orison and dwayna's kiss usually gets me quite a long way, without running out of energy. Now I can even use Heal Party and Aegis without losing P&H! Bliss! :) --Eightyfour-onesevenfive 03:43, 4 March 2006 (CST) Capture bug? It would appear that since the March second update (or shortly after) the capturing of this skill is either bugged or the location changed. I recently went to Marnta only to find that the Peace and Harmony skill was not able to be captured from her: http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v466/accadacca84/guildwars/gw681.jpg I figured that since the Wiki specifically says that she is the boss you obtain the skill from, that this would be worth noting on discussion until it is resolved. A bug report was sent in not long after I discovered this issue and attempted to capture the skill numerous times to no avail, by leaving and re-entering the area and defeating her repeatedly. My apologies, but I could not find out after breifly searching how to make a clickable link. I hope this is no trouble. --Acca :Looks like Monk elites got screwed up with this update. See Talk:Marnta Doomspeaker for all the info I know about it. --Rainith 12:41, 4 March 2006 (CST) ::There was an update when I logged into the game, so I went to check on Peace and Harmony and successfully captured it. --Acca 06:02, 4 March 2006 (UTC) ok seriously......even at 3 (THREE) inspiration magic MoR gives you more energy then this one at 16 divine... It might be some good in a 3-monk backline, but still, once someone on the opposing team calls out "**** is using Peace and Harmony" it will be drained every time you use it (drain enchantment needs a little more then 3 inspiration magic, but will generally still provide more energy then PaH lol). Suddenly, your enemies are the ones gaining energy from YOUR elite. What I mean to say is that this skill sucks arse, and nothing less. —''The preceding unsigned comment was added by'' 213.84.52.71 (talk • ) 14:46, 10 August 2006 (CDT). :you don't like it, fine. all skills are optional. insulting people is not apprecated. --Honorable Sarah image:Honorable_Icon.gif 16:06, 11 August 2006 (CDT) ::I've found this skill to be less than useful myself, even going as far as saying it's possibly the worst in the game for PvP. If anything, it may have its uses in small battles like HA (Heroes' Ascent) where a bonder is feasible (most 8x8 battles I've been in have at least one dedicated mesmer or something like an order of apostacy necro or Ritual Lord with Disenchant). Personally, I probably would stray away from it in HA, too, because I've had better luck with prot/smite there (and any boost to damage helps in those small groups). My last bond group went down in about 25 seconds to a highly ranked Korean guild (like #6), so I don't know if it was the bonding, or the competition. seriously, WTF? What is this crap about PaH making boon monking possible with 4 pips? This has obviously been written by someone who knows SHIT about energy management. I know it gives you a 4th pip, but if the writer had known anything about energy management he/she would've known that the energy from MoR, ED and OoB goes far beyond that. I think it should be made clear that Peace and Harmony is INFERIOR to MoR, ED and OoB. Inferior, and nothing less. I pointed this out in a very polite way by adding something to the last note (everything from "it's drawback is...") Also, why does the table show the energy per second "when constantly maintained on yourself"? that is the worst way to use PaH (exept casting it on an elementalist perhaps)—''The preceding unsigned comment was added by'' Thomas (talk • ) 16:02, 11 August 2006 (CDT). :wow, bitter much? check out Energy management guide --Honorable Sarah image:Honorable_Icon.gif 16:04, 11 August 2006 (CDT) ::Whatever, but shouldn't the 'maintained constantly on yourself' be replaced with 'maintaned constantly on as many people as possible', along with a 'maintained constantly on as many people as possible with a 20% enchant mod' and a 'maintaned constantly on an many people as possible with a 20% enchant mod and Blessed Aura active'? after all, that is the only good way to use it. -Thomas 14:16, 24 August 2006 (CDT) :::: You forgot the key word: Maintained on as many people who dont cause damage to enemy! Effectively reducing its usage to monks, ritualists and possibly trappers. : Amilo Robin 20px 17:09, 1 September 2006 (CDT) :::I added it, it was deleted - http://gw.gamewikis.org/wiki?title=Peace_and_Harmony&oldid=199397. I have to admit, it wasn't that good. Bold numbers in the progression table for the breaking point for "maintaining on another ally" could be a better solution. --Nemren 14:26, 24 August 2006 (CDT) I mean something more like this: Divine Favor blah blah Duration blah blah Energy Gain per second 0.17 0.19 0.20 0.21 0.23 0.48 0.49 0.50 0.51 0.52 0.53 0.79 0.81 0.82, 0.83 0.83 0.84 0.85 Additional tables could be made for maintaining it with Blessed Aura and/or a 20% enchant mod The energy gain is when maintained constantly on as many people as possible, because we all know that is the only good way to use Peace and Harmony. If you maintain it constantly on yourself you're better of with almost any non-elite energy management skill. xD This would at least make this skill look like somehting else than complete and utter crap. Though I doubt if that is a good thing, since IMO it IS complete and utter crap, but that's imo -Thomas 16:05, 6 September 2006 (CDT) You forget something though. Peace and harmony's usage becomes incredibly effective if the monk is having energy management problems in the firts place. Using Boon, you can now regenerate to 5 energy far faster than with other forms of energy management, which only activate once every twenty seconds or so. With Peace and harmony, you can recase every 4 seconds if your energy is at 0, which is, by the by, ALSO where boon becomes most effective, because the efficiency is increased since you don't lose the extra 2 energy. With other energy management, you'll have to cast every five seconds. Peace and harmony just has the edge when the monk is under extreme pressure. Besides, it allows you to put more points into divine and protection, making things like CoP and Signet of Devotion work more effectively as well. I removed all the boon notes.... — Skuld 13:32, 13 September 2006 (CDT) No that's not where it becomes incredibly effective. That's where it becomes totally inferior to MoR, Edrain and OoB -Thomas 03:02, 1 October 2006 (CDT) Have you considered using it on an allied monk, and then they have 5 pips, and can use their OWN energy management for even more energy? you don't even have to be a monk primary to use this on an allied monk when he's under pressure. --Terrifi Cani 14:21, 1 October 2006 (CDT) ::Wouldn't Succor have the same result but be infinitely better in that situation, especially because an elite wouldn't be wasted? --Insidious420 11:26, 6 February 2007 (CST) :::With Succor you would have -1energy regen, and on top of that every time the allied monk uses a spell you'd lose energy. Therefore unless you're an all-signet/adrenal Warrior or Paragon it would be a very bad idea. RossMM 18:41, 6 February 2007 (CST) This skill can have some use, it can be cast on other ally's. And with MoR you need to spend points in Inspiration Magic and it can't give others energy.--Want2be 10:26, 23 March 2007 (CDT) Energy Cost & Gain Over Time Let me be the first to point out the difference between energy cost of MoR and P&H. So you said at 3 Inspiration Magic vs 15 Divine Favor, MoR would be better? Lets look at the energy gain, both spanning 20 seconds. With 3 Inspiration Magic, you would gain 16 energy after 20 seconds, but it takes 10 energy to cast it, so the gain is 6 energy. P&H's duration spans across 4 1/2 times the amount of MoR, so lets round that up to 2 energy every 20 seconds, just to give MoR an advantage. P&H gives you 10 energy over 20 seconds, at the cost of 2 energy, so the gain is 8 energy. If you were to give MoR the usual amount of attribute points, it would indeed give you more energy, but your healing abilities would drop considerably. P&H's biggest advantage is it's attribute, Divine Favor, an attribute that just about all monks already have a large amount of attribute points in. VegaObscura 12:03, 26 October 2006 (CDT) So what does all this mean? Peace and Harmony is not as good as Mantra of Recall, unless the user is a monk. :A pip of energy is one energy every three seconds, not every two seconds. Using the same arbitrary time span for both doesn't simplify analysis, it only obscures it. At 15 divine with a +20% wrapping, you get 108s of P&H, netting you 31 e, or 0.287 e/s. This is a little less than a pip of energy regen (as one would expect) since there's the overhead of casting P&H. MoR at 3 inspiration gives you 16 e, netting you 6 e. You can use MoR every 21s normally, meaning 0.286 e/s. Take away the enchantment wrapping or go to 16 DF instead and P&H loses to 3 inspiration MoR. Invest just one more rank into inspiration and you get 1/3 e/s from MoR, the same as one pip of energy regen, and P&H is eclipsed completely. --Fyren 06:42, 23 October 2006 (CDT) One energy every three seconds? Well there went my argument =\ I'll check this out and make sure. If its true, then yes MoR would be better than P&H. VegaObscura 12:03, 26 October 2006 (CDT) :MoR has now been nerfed a bit, and now my old argument applies again. Now the gain from MoR is 3 energy at 3 inspiration magic. VegaObscura 12:03, 26 October 2006 (CDT) ::A bit. I use MoR with 10 insp magic, and it works fine (I only use this for boon protting, as boon healing is silly and a waste of energy). -Auron 12:06, 7 December 2006 (CST) :::Lets not forget one important fact, when a fight starts getting ugly seconds count to a monk, sometimes even a half second cast time is too long when your trying to save a target. MoR needs to be reapplied every twenty seconds (or so depending on your enchanting) where as you can run PaH for a MUCH longer time befoer taking time out of healing your allies to recast it. Add to the fact that you can recast PaH and reset its duration at your convience (like say a breif lul) unlike MoR which MUST run out before you can benift from it andd PaH becomes far more versitile in long term engagments. :::Yes, its less energy gain than a 10 point MoR but the ability to run a boon prot at 16 13 makes up for it greatly in a pinch as all your spells get more effective. Finnaly when running on empty the -2 energy from divine boon wont set you negetive, having the fourth pip back means you can cast more often for less energy since you get to partialy ignore the -2 per cast, where as a MoR boost will fill you back up and you'll start burning that -2 again. :::Ive been using PaH over MoR in Zos shivros challenge lately and the preformace differnce is VERY notable, even before i start sharaing the wealth and running it on other casters. Like all elite skills it only sucks if you havent found the niche its meant for.--TypoNinja 16:02, 14 December 2006 (CST) Peace and Succor A full set of Radiant armor and three peices of Attunement (other two for vigor and attribute) and a Staff of the Forgotten nets you 64 energy. When using this (or having a hero monk use it) plus an adrenal warrior hero maintaining Succor will provide 6 energy regeneration or 6 energy every 3 seconds. I have found this to be very effective. Sure on paper and by itself it looks stupid, but so do other skills. :Or Channeling. Or just use an elite slot for Blood is Power. Or prehaps just manage your energy better ;) — Skuld 12:32, 7 December 2006 (CST) ::In PvE, that kind of Energy maintenance is overkill. ~Soja 8:21 CST 7 December 2006 :::Not neccesarily. There are plenty of higher-level areas in all three games where energy management is critical for a monk to heal properly. Just play in the realm of torment for a while and you'll understand. Jrista 13:51, 30 January 2007 (CST) Illusionary Weaponry To bad this and IW could be used together. It might not end it and would maybe make a decent combo but /sigh, they are both elites.--Eloc jcg 22:06, 4 March 2007 (CST) :Hmm. Mo/Me with arcane mimicry. Haven't tried this, but I'm slightly intrigued. VegJed 20:24, 27 March 2007 (CDT) ::PaH would end as soon as you deal damage with Illusionary Weaponry. --Curse You 21:11, 12 August 2007 (CDT) :::Tested, attacking with Illusionary Weaponry does not end P&H. Illusionary Weaponry has the same results with the Lightbringer Title, for some reason the game doesn't see it as YOU doing the damage, so it isn't increased. Reversal of Damage, Vengeful Weapon, and Weapon of Remedy also don't trigger on its damage, as they need a targetable source to steal from/return damage to. Other things I tested with P&H: Balthazar's Aura, Ancestor's Rage, and Retribution. Balthazars Aura will end P&H on the caster, but not on the target, and shows damage numbers for the caster, but not for the enchanted target. Ancestor's will end P&H on the target, but not on the caster, and shows damage numbers for the target. Retribution won't end P&H on either caster or target, damage numbers are shown only for caster. I'd like to assume Holy Wrath is the same as retribution. Kjeron 00:21, 19 August 2007 (CDT) ::::So howd you put 2 elites on your bar? - 69.248.175.25 21:46, 19 December 2007 (UTC) ::::PnH comes from another player. Nice late reply as well. Lord of all tyria 21:47, 19 December 2007 (UTC) Where is the LAME tag, I want it now! Already the PaH monks are coming for me... if I hide under a rock they will never find me! Suckers... ~Readem :Hehe, who the hell is this guy? [[User:Readem|'Readem']] (''talk''* ) 23:28, 13 April 2007 (CDT) What makes this crap even worse is that it also ends when I use a targetted heal spell on someone <_<. Axl Geist 21:03, 16 April 2007 (CDT) :No it doesn't. –Ichigo724 10:11, 17 April 2007 (CDT) ::Hmmm. It hapened to me while I was ZBing in RA. I'll test it tomorrow, if I remember D:.Axl Geist 21:43, 18 April 2007 (CDT) :::ZB and PaH are both elites...I don't see. Whatever, I agree, LAME this skill! M s4 20:35, 8 May 2007 (CDT) ::::I KNOW they're both elites. I was paired with a PaH monk. And I still never got around to testing it D:.Axl Geist 12:48, 31 May 2007 (CDT) Tycn 07:11, 9 May 2007 (CDT) maybe you ppl should stop adding lame tags and start making builds; each skill has its place in a build... :Perhaps you, anonymous, should try and think up a good build that would have synergy. Others have tried and found it just isn't worth the elite slot for subpar energy management while at the same time having restrictions on getting that energy management. --Kale Ironfist 09:46, 16 June 2007 (CDT) ::This skill works perfect for a 600/Smiter.. take 5 bonds instead of 4 and blood ritual instead of BiP. if u can keep PaH up.. which is rather easy because your smiter doesn't have to tank "all the time". 86.91.128.247 13:49, 2 January 2008 (UTC) :::Without trying this skill (like I'm sure well over half the people posting here) I will say this. It looks bad at first glance because of elite status. But one monk casting in on monks in the party is a plus. Also, the way monks manage energy best (not over healing) should work well with this. When I monk I usually have times of full energy when party isn't hurt enough to heal... perfect time to cast this; then when energy is more desperate, I'd have the extra tiny steady dose. The other thing that looks good is running an extra maintained enchantment, and the potential additional energy benefit from synergy with Blessed Signet of having an extra maintained enchantment up (extra does not mean 5, it means more than you could otherwise manage). So depending on style of play and team build (much more important and challenging to do right than an individual build), this could work well. Maybe not the best, but well. Just thoughts for why I'd be hesitant to LAME it. --Mooseyfate 02:24, 30 May 2008 (UTC) ::::3 words: Mantra of Recall --Gimmethegepgun 02:46, 30 May 2008 (UTC) :::::Monks usually have Divine Favor over Inspiration Magic, Gim. 04:10, 30 May 2008 (UTC) - Pawnzors - This skill is the pawnzors for healing/protection monks, its not made for dmg dealing builds, but you guys are waaaay too fucked in the head to understand this :] Anet do NOT change this skill ;] LetoZeth 07:38, 12 May 2007 (CDT) :It's pretty obvious that this is not for a damage-dealing build, due to the conditions that make it end prematurely. The reason people don't like it is that even on a protection or healing monk it puts some (admittedly not too dramatic) restrictions on you, but with not that large a benefit. +1 energy regen is nice but hardly makes it efficient energy management, unlike Mantra of Recall or Offering of Blood. Now if it was +2 it would get a lot more use, and in its current form it may get use on some people's bars (I have been known to give it to a hero when taking two monk heroes, as then both can gain benefit from it and it offsets their awful energy management), but overall there are far better monk elites out there and energy management options from secondary professions. RossMM 07:58, 12 May 2007 (CDT) ::No, its you that is fucked in the head to realize that one energy every 3 seconds is quite possibly one of the slowest ways to gain energy, period. offering of blood at 4 blood magic already gives more energy. M s4 10:19, 12 May 2007 (CDT) :::ay, whats with the language. 68.229.134.95 22:45, 15 May 2007 (CDT) ::::I actually agree with him. This skill is the "pawnzors". It simple requires everyone to shed their image of Monks as brutal damage-dealers who tank and deal out vicious amounts of damage and as peaceful players who help thier party. 1e per 3sec is quite good. It outstrips Mantra of Recall, Healer's Convenant and many other e-management options. Also, free health regen with Mending. Godwin. CSM 17:35, 8 June 2007 (CDT) :::::At 7 or more inspiration, MoR is more energy (unless you get someone else to cast P&H for you, at which point it's the same energy at 7). Comparing it to covenant is a lot tricker, but if you just consider healing per energy spent, covenant does way better. I'll ignore your GW-styled Godwin invocation. --Fyren 17:45, 8 June 2007 (CDT) ::::::You confused me there. CSM 15:26, 28 June 2007 (CDT) :::::::I don't know a single person who thinks of Monks as "brutal damage-dealers who tank and deal out vicious amounts of damage". Where did you pull that from? No one has that image, and people still think this skill fails miserably. That should tell you something. And as Fyren just said - the numbers don't add up either. Other Energy-management Elite skills commonly used by Monks are just miles better. So: PnH is lame. Except for the guild of course. (T/ ) 15:33, 28 June 2007 (CDT) ::::::::You said it's better energy than mantra of recall. P&H gives you 1e/3s not considering the 5e cost to cast. At 7 inspiration and including the cost to cast, MoR gives you 1e/3s. If you use covenant, you're probably going to be saving 3e per cast. You save 3e per cast put lose 1e/3s, so if you cast once every 4.5s, you match P&H's 1e/3s. --Fyren 15:44, 28 June 2007 (CDT) :::::::::You guys fail hard at sarcasm. :S CSM 16:18, 28 June 2007 (CDT) ::::::::::Sarcasm doesn't work on the internet. btw you should be logging in to use your signature otherwise sign as an anon. -- Xeon 16:23, 28 June 2007 (CDT) ::::::::::: It simply requires everyone to shed their image of Monks as brutal damage-dealers who tank and deal out vicious amounts of damage and as peaceful players who help thier party. That part was supposed to be the big hint. Oh well. CSM 16:25, 28 June 2007 (CDT) I guess no one noticed, but it lasts 30 seconds with 0 DF with a recharge of 10, making it useful for Resto Rits too Vainity And Sorrow 01:14, 25 July 2007 (CDT) :Restoration rits get a lot more out of AWS than this. The thing is, with 5 cost and 30 duration, this will give a net gain of 5 energy in 30 seconds. Not really a very big boost --Gimmethegepgun 01:24, 25 July 2007 (CDT) I like casting it on two or more monks, it lets your party Monks keep up with pressure! Zulu Inuoe 04:50, 5 August 2007 (CDT) rofl its like pacifism cept it heals! who here is a trigun fan? i believe this skill should be renamed LOVE AND PEACE!! who else agrees? Darhk 03:45, 5 October 2007 (UTC)darhk Possible synergy? Thought just occurred to me, thinking of Marnta Doomspeaker - does Zealot's Fire end this? If not, it may be possible to incorporate it into a Smiting build, that uses things like Pacifism, Judge's Insight, and Scourge Healing, aka. a support character, and Divine Favor could be used for healing skills. It's a thought. Still it is a poor choice on Energy management, for the same build you might as well use Channeling or Blessed Signet and stuff. (T/ ) 19:28, 16 May 2007 (CDT) :Tested, ZF does remove P&H. Also, Pacifism is prot, and both it and Scourge Healing are "target enemy" spells, and would end this anyway --Gimmethegepgun 20:02, 16 May 2007 (CDT) ::Humm, I wonder why she uses it them...oh well, NPC superpowers ftl. (T/ ) 21:39, 22 May 2007 (CDT) :::Ah who knows. She sucks anyway --Gimmethegepgun 21:40, 22 May 2007 (CDT) ::::Marnta's build stems from the old skill description for PaH. ::::"For 30...78 seconds, target ally gains +1 energy regeneration. Peace and Harmony ends if that ally attacks or casts a spell that does not target an ally. This is an elite skill." ::::The skill used to not end if you dealt damage, meaning that PBAoE could be used with this skill, since it did not target an enemy. --Curse You 23:03, 14 August 2007 (CDT) :It needs a buff, and everyone get a screenie, i'm gonna swear on Gwiki(which i rarely do). This skill is fucking terrible.--Darksyde Never Again 23:18, 16 August 2007 (CDT) :I have found that the only smiting skills that can deal damage, and don't cause PaH to end are Reversal of Damage, Retribution and Holy Wrath. However, Retribution defeats the purpose of PaH, since it makes you loose a pip of regen. Even worse is Holy Wrath, which is totally counter productive, since it causes you to loose energy every time it causes damage. --Curse You 04:18, 18 November 2007 (UTC) Peace and Harmony & Hero AI Monk heroes should use this on other monks, but they don't. That sucks. :I noticed the same thing, they only like to cast it on themselves and very rarely onto a Restoration Rit...you gotta force them manually to cast it, and that kinda ruins the whole "Easy PvE Energy Management" thing. (T/ ) 22:26, 8 September 2007 (CDT) Team where it's worth it? Say you're in a team with am Illusionary Weaponer, Minion Master, and Binding Ritualist; you're a heal spam monk choosing an elite. Do you think you MIGHT consider bringing P&H? It could be used on your whole party... :Umm, no. There are still much better choices out there for a healing monk elite skill.-- (Talk) ( ) 22:20, 8 September 2007 (CDT) ::I'm not sure, but I think IW would end PnH since you are still doing "damage". Others would have to be extra-careful to never ever wand a foe accidentally. ::Other than that, yes, you could cast this on the entire party for +1 Energy regeneration. But! I have a better idea. Just take a full Adrenaline Warrior (or Paragon), and have them cast Succor. One War/Para can support two casters and another War/Para - if two people cast it on each other they negate the Energy degen and both gain +1 Health regen. -1 Energy from spellcasting is not important since they're full Adrenal...it is a permanent Enchant and so never expires...it won't end if you do damage...et cetera. ::PnH just sucks, not much way around it. Even if you're only talking about Energy management for yourself and no one else, there are better things. Boon Signet or Healer's Covenant or Healer's Boon or Air of Enchantment or...ZB...I dunno...just so many better options. The only reason I'd ever consider PnH is if I was only Core/Prophecies, since then those other Elites are not available. But even still. Good monks use Signet of Devotion for Energy management. (T/ ) 22:26, 8 September 2007 (CDT) :::The real use of this skill is not in raw energy per second, but if you are having trouble keeping energy up and find yourself at >5 energy for any extended period of time, PnH is superior. Why? Casting any other energy management can only be done once every X seconds, where PnH is constant energy flow, all the time. So you will be at 4 pips and casting a 5-energy spell every 4 or so seconds, whereas with PnH you are casting the same spells every 3 seconds. Thats a big difference. PnH is alot better when you're under pressure. ::::Except that you kinda need to be a pretty bad monk to constantly be at 5 energy or less, and that PnH is still just shatter fodder. Besides, the 2 best monk energy management skills are signets: Signet of Devotion and Blessed Signet --Gimmethegepgun 20:18, 8 November 2007 (UTC) :::::Actually, the BEST energy management skill is to not heal or prot for more than you need to :) In cases of pressure though, it is better to have BR on a hero. Heros will be more likely use BR when you need it than a human party member, can use it on multiple casters wihout it being cancelled, and you are saving an elite slot. Kudoz2u 06:16, 22 December 2007 (UTC) name yeah this skill should deffinatly be renamed love and peace, trigun fans accross the world will pee thier pants!! OR better idea, make a paragon chant called "love and peace!" it will give all teammates within earshot a 75% chance to block all attacks and makes all your attacks unmissable! Darhk 03:50, 5 October 2007 (UTC)darhk NO. That would be dumb. lol, fucking owned. :I wouldn't pee my pants at a Trigun reference. And Vash was not the first person to ever say "love and peace." Ever heard of hippies? 02:08, 11 February 2008 (UTC) Damage What if you used this spell on an ally, then used Reversal of Damage on him or you? Would that end the enchantment? Also, what if you put this on a pet and put him to heel, would that give him +1 nrg reg? Fire Tock 14:10, 20 November 2007 (UTC) :Reversal of Damage probably wont end it, since it is the enchantment doing the damage. Same with Sliver Armor and various dervish enchantments perhaps. Sounds like a test is in order to me. Kudoz2u 06:16, 22 December 2007 (UTC) Efficient with Multiple Monks? Yeah, yeah, we all know that this sucks as an energy management skill on a single monk. However, in an 8 party team with 3 monks this skill becomes more then viable. 15 overhead energy for casting on each of the monks, and you get the equivalent of 1 energy a second. (3 monks * 1 pip) 15 energy for 1 energy a second for the next 78+ seconds. What is wrong with this? PwnageLlama 00:53, 29 May 2008 (UTC) :Its an enchantment, and it won't stack :: I realize that. I was refering to the combined regeneration when cast on 3 monks. PwnageLlama 02:18, 29 May 2008 (UTC) :::Well, three monks by itself is inefficient. However, yes; P&H does become marginally better when there are multiple non-offensive allies. 02:23, 29 May 2008 (UTC) ::::Yeah, but better than crap doesn't say much --Gimmethegepgun 02:54, 29 May 2008 (UTC) :::::Marginally better? Every added non-offensive ally makes it much more useful! Most of the comparisons on this page have compared it when cast on a single person. I've seem some groups with 3 monks in high level and occasionally in HA. PwnageLlama 23:51, 29 May 2008 (UTC) ::::::But they didn't carry PnH, did they? ::::::Non-offensive allies are pretty much limited to the healers and the Spirit-spammers, and having more than three really puts you at a disadvantage in either PvP or PvE. (T/ ) 00:16, 30 May 2008 (UTC) ::::::: Really? I could imagine a group with 2 monks and 1 spirit spammer. I am arguing that if you were to have 3 non-offensive allies then this would be a good choice. The reason that this skill isn't used might be because people think it sucks, not because it actually does. PwnageLlama 22:39, 30 May 2008 (UTC) ::::::::The problem is that the only time you will have 3 monks will be either a 3 monk backline in HA, or using a monk flagger in GvG. In HA, you get loads of energy off channelling, rendering PnH unnecessary. In GvG, you need a prot elite, usually RC, and you need a cheap, big heal, usually WoH. The flagger needs to be able to split, meaning they will usually have an elite to heal with. PnH is bad because other monk elites are a vast amount better, and teams need those elites. Lord of all tyria 22:44, 30 May 2008 (UTC) :::::::::In order for your three characters with this skill to avoid removing it almost immediately, they'd have to be standing there doing nothing most of the time. If you really need that much extra energy for healers, it would be more efficient to just replace a damage dealer by a fourth healer so that the healers can all attack in between heals. That would get you both more healing and more damage. Quizzical 23:22, 30 May 2008 (UTC) :::::::::Wanding? In PvE, that means entering their aggro circle and dealing 10 or so damage against hulking tanks. In PvP, wanding is more useful, but still not always worth it. You have to run closer to the enemy and stay closish to them. While auto attacking you will follow your target until you cancel attacking. That means that you might have run quite a distance before realizing that you need to heal your team - or it adds another thing to pay attention to. It simply is not worth it. PwnageLlama 20:52, 1 June 2008 (UTC) Update With the new update, I don't think there's a need for the energy gaining table :P. Thanks to the new function for PoH, now there's a skill to counter heavy hexes & conditions xD.Light out 04:05, 12 December 2008 (UTC) :So basically now it's Purge Conditions mixed with part of Convert Hexes and a near-immunity to hexes and conditions for a couple seconds. But I HAVE to ask: WHY does it disable Smiting Prayers? --Gimmethegepgun 04:08, 12 December 2008 (UTC) ::Because you can't say Peace and Harmony one second and then pray for someone's destruction the next. 04:10, 12 December 2008 (UTC) :::And yet you can undergo a Contemplation of Purity and then go and Curse someone. And naturally the new "It's just a flesh wound." has ABSOLUTELY NOTHING to do with flesh wounds. And seriously, wtf, a SPEED BOOST? --Gimmethegepgun 04:14, 12 December 2008 (UTC) ::::The Smiting Prayers deal is to keep with the theme, and because no one uses Smiting as part of a build that would involve Peace and Harmony, so it won't change anything. [[user:Entrea|'Entrea']] [Talk] 04:16, 12 December 2008 (UTC) :::::They sure didn't "keep with the theme" with "\Incoming and It's just a flesh wound. And my point about Contemplation of Purity is still valid. No one is gonna use Curses with that, so why doesn't it disable Curses? --Gimmethegepgun 04:19, 12 December 2008 (UTC) ::::::Well, they contemplate purity, then think "Nahhh... SS FTW!" King Neoterikos 04:22, 12 December 2008 (UTC) :::::::Didn't you know? Death is the purest form a person can have. When he dies, his soul is set free, to drift in Heaven for eternity. Some monks have sworn an oath to liberate all souls that have been trapped in these horrible meatsacks, even delving into the Dark arts in order to spread death. (Also, there's no skill in the game that disables the skills of another profession, except when it disables all skills of a certain type. -- Terrafire ::::::::Monk: "Hmm... 'Peace and Harmony' --Gimmethegepgun 04:25, 12 December 2008 (UTC) its "peace and harmony" so if u use it'll prevent u from doing damage(sort of)````(not sure how to put it but this comment was left by 208.120.0.247) :Looks really sweet now. 10 is a good break point. Removing 6 conditions 6 hexes, and 4 seconds of hexes and conditions ending 90% faster. This is like RC on roids. I am kind of afraid to see how AI monks use it though. Tenetke Mekko 07:38, 12 December 2008 (UTC) ::My guess is that smiting prayers are disabled because the generic smiter build has a range of choices for elites - none really stand out. This would be the elite of choice without a doubt, if it didn't disable smiting prayers. 10:39, 12 December 2008 (UTC) :::I see no reason to use divert over this. --Dasen 13:01, 12 December 2008 (UTC) :::: Divert has healing , which this does not, divert has half the recharge.I think the healing is the biggest difference, if you want something to heal also you take divert if you simply want to remove stacks of hexes ( and conditions ) this is betterDurga Dido 13:33, 12 December 2008 (UTC) :::::There was an error with the article unless there has been a quickfix the recharge is 7. Also with higher Divine Favor it gives a small heal, removes a stack of conditions and hexes, and makes the target almost immune to conditions and hexes. When you compare it with Divert Hexes it has a 2 second longer recharge, and no real heal. On the other hand this can remove conditions without the need for hexes, it costs half the energy of Divert. So comparing the two you are trading a small heal for roughly half the recharge time of near immunity to hexes and conditions. The removal of conditions is non-conditional. To me Peace and Harmony is much better than Divert. Just my opinion though. Tenetke Mekko 13:50, 12 December 2008 (UTC) ::::::: Hmm either there was indeed a error or it was just me, because i saw 7 recharge before i replied and then double checked while writing and saw 5, so i dunno.I personally like PnH more then divert,one of the big advantages is that its also a condition removal, whereas divert is a hex removal that has the bonus that it removes condition IF the hex was removed,but this is GW where you need every little thing you can get out of a skill and i think when it comes down to it, the heal that divert gives will be too much for most people in high end to give up on.Durga Dido 14:06, 12 December 2008 (UTC) :resetting indent. No it wasn't us, someone was updating the template and the recharge got set to 10, I fixed it back at 7. Not anyone's fault. The heal is good on Divert, and it doesn't count as an enchant. That can be a good or bad thing in different situations. For now though this will be on my monks bar. Tenetke Mekko 15:32, 12 December 2008 (UTC) ::The recharge had been set to 10 since October 2006. Either it got changed at some other time in the past two years (unlikely, since GWW also had it at 10), or it was an undocumented change in yesterday's update. —Dr Ishmael 15:52, 12 December 2008 (UTC) :::Which gets removed first, hexes or conditions? If hexes, its better, to counter HC and stuff, but we need to find out. ~~ [[User:frvwfr2|'frvwfr2']] (T/ ) 17:17, 12 December 2008 (UTC) ::::Does this remove 7 hexes AND 7 conditions, or a total of 7 hexes and conditions combined? 21:10, 12 December 2008 (UTC) :::::According to the original update notes, it's 7 each. --JonTheMon 21:14, 12 December 2008 (UTC) ::::::Well this is... really nice now. Since they murdered my Monk's Life Sheath I might just start using this instead. At least ANet finally realized how crappy this was. 17:10, 14 December 2008 (UTC) :::::: Well they also realized how crappy Life Sheath was and buffed it. Durga Dido 02:50, 15 January 2009 (UTC) Recurring Insecurity So, this removes condition->hex->condition->hex etc. right? Since it doesn't technically remove all the hexes at once, what happens if RI is on them with a hex under it? Will it remove RI 7 times and it comes back, probably blowing them to pieces with Soul Barbs, or will RI not reapply itself between hex removals? --Gimmethegepgun 21:47, 12 December 2008 (UTC) :RI got changed also, so it probably won't do anything. 22:32, 12 December 2008 (UTC) ::I know it got changed, and the previous version would've just been torched anyway --Gimmethegepgun 22:33, 12 December 2008 (UTC) :::The correct answer is Yes. It will remove RI over and over again and nothing else (assuming RI is on top). Soul Barbs +RI + PnH = 210 instant damage. ::::That's simply awesome. And stupidly broken. --- -- ( ) (talk) 11:02, 14 December 2008 (UTC) :::::I hope if they ever fix it they make PnH remove it correctly instead of nerfing RI, which is finally useful and the way it should've been from the beginning....wait- we're talking about Izzy here -.- -- [[User:Taki_Fujiko|''Taki Fujiko]] 14:42, 14 December 2008 (UTC) ::::::Let me tell you a little story of how a well meaning monk, blew up the warrior on his own team. It starts when the warrior stupidy decides that a necro and a mesmer make an easy target. Then it begins a little soul barb, a few other hexes and then the Recurring Insanity, yes I know that isn't the name. Then the well meaning monk decides to Pain and Harm the good Warrior. Then BOOOOOOM the warrior blows to bits. This is stupid, there is a reason we don't have friendly fire here. Tenetke Mekko 15:22, 14 December 2008 (UTC) :::::::You forgot the most important part of the story! - ' Ad Victoriam' 18:01, 14 December 2008 (UTC) :::::::I find my previous comment highly amusing, considering the fact that this PoS Izzy nerfed RI to death 1 day later. -- [[User:Taki_Fujiko|Taki Fujiko]] 10:53, 19 December 2008 (UTC) Again, bad wording It doesn't expire 90% faster, it expires in 90% less time. Compare this to the description of Air of Disenchantment. Buzzer 07:55, 13 December 2008 (UTC) :Do semantics all you want, everyone understands what it means, so who cares? [[user:Entrea|'Entrea']] [Talk] 03:03, 14 December 2008 (UTC) ::Explain to me, then, why we have notes all over the Wiki about why 33% IAS really means 150% more hits, or whatever the psblurtex it says. No one understands that or cares, either. :\ (T/ ) 05:56, 14 December 2008 (UTC) ::33% faster = 2/3 the time between hits = 3/2 the number of hits, AKA 50% more hits --Gimmethegepgun 18:11, 14 December 2008 (UTC) :::That one never made sense to me either. 33% increased attack speed should mean 133% hits. reminds me of another game. EVE-Online. I don't know if anybody plays it, but in that game they have a stat for rate of fire, and it's the delay betweeen shots, rather than the actual rate of fire. It doesn't make sense Viruzzz 18:25, 14 December 2008 (UTC) ::::My ex-gf tried to get me on to EVE-Online but it was pay to play and i was working so not enough hours to play a pay-to-play is a no no. Back to topic, since when did the work Anet does have to make sense --BeeD 18:38, 14 December 2008 (UTC) :::::Rate is Attacks/Time. Attack speed is Time/Attack. In order to get the rate (a/t) you have to flip the attack speed so you get attacks/time. 33% faster is 1/3 less time per attack, so 2/3 time per attack (time/attack). Flip that to get attacks/time, and you have 50% more attacks in a given amount of time --Gimmethegepgun 18:57, 14 December 2008 (UTC) It's One Louder While it's theoretically possible to remove more than 10 conditions with this spell (such as removing Phantom Pain, I'd imagine), did anyone else thing of This is Spinal Tap when they saw that PnH removes 11 conditions at 18 Divine Favor? "This condition removal goes to eleven." :What? 05:18, 16 December 2008 (UTC) ::the simple minds of Felix and I can not process what you said my head is gunna implode (>'.')>+----- Toolbooth death 05:22, 16 December 2008 (UTC) :::Amps, Felix. I even know that and I don't know what the original reference is. (T/ ) 06:03, 16 December 2008 (UTC) ::::Only 10 conditions and it removes 11+? --Shadowcrest 15:13, 16 December 2008 (UTC) :::::Only removes that many at 18 Divine Favor. I don't know of any monks that run that much, but generally that isn't an attainable level. I don't think it is attainable at all in pvp. Tenetke Mekko 15:34, 16 December 2008 (UTC) ::::::It's not. 17 is max with +1/20% item. I can't think of any +Divine Favour skills. Dragnmn talk 18:54, 16 December 2008 (UTC) :::::::doesn't it remove hexes+conditions=11?, so it removes 6 conditions in the top case... at least thats what i got from the description... 02:12, 17 December 2008 (UTC) :::::::: At 12 diving it will remove 7 hexes and remove 7 conditions, for a total of 14 removed.Durga Dido 02:17, 17 December 2008 (UTC) ::::::::::original reference in this post is spinal tap. See this video: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=d54UU-fPIsY — ~Soqed Hozi~ 16:09, 28 January 2009 (UTC) Divert Hexes Would anyone (still) use Divert Hexes after Peace and Harmony changed? It's more expensive, more conditional and removes less hexes/conditions. Only advantage is the health gain, which is difficult to match against the 90% faster hex/condition expiration. --Lexxor 11:27, 17 December 2008 (UTC) :Perhaps against more damaging hexes? I would be hard pressed to use DE, unless I was going into an area in PvE where the hexes were heavy in number and power, then the healing may have a use, but otherwise, generally, I would say no. King Neoterikos 11:38, 17 December 2008 (UTC) ::In PvP, the heals are a huge factor (see RC). Divert isn't good enough to replace RC for general use, though. Because RC is still better than PnH vs conditions, unless you know you're facing heavy hex stacks, PnH isn't viable. Divert needs some buffs to make it on par with RC... it really depends on what exact hexes you're facing whether Divert or RC is preferable. In PvE I'd always take PnH, though, since the heals aren't as big a factor there. (T/ ) 13:36, 17 December 2008 (UTC) this + wastrel's worry = four seconds of sweet mesmer love. -- (Page/Talk) 20:21, 19 January 2009 (UTC) :Actually, given what we've seen from Patient Spirit and Mark of Insecurity, it's more likely that Wastrel's Worry would round down to 0 seconds and never even be applied. 16:16, 28 January 2009 (UTC) :: Wastrel's Worry duration is set to 0, but you still get the damage. I haven't checked the result when using lightning surge or shatterstone though. I'm gonna miss the old P&H. R.I.P. my old party Bonder. [[User:Hisoka_Kazemeijin|'Kaze']] 10:17, 9 February 2009 (UTC) :^Guy above is an idiot. 01:44, 23 April 2009 (UTC) ::^Guy above is in violation of GW:NPA Kael Drake 1:09, April, 25, 2009 (Central) :::^Guy above doesn't have a sense of humour.--[[User:Darksyde_Never_Again|'Darksyde']] 01:41, 16 May 2009 (UTC) Update May 14th 2009 So.. PnH sort of nerfed and LC only a minor change? Say hello to hexrape, VoR is gonna own so bad ;_; I'm glad that people run RC and LS as prot elite in GvG again though. TrinityX 06:22, 15 May 2009 (UTC) :I really don't understand this nerf. Hexway was ''already winning without using any frontliners vs. balanced teams in GvG who HAD PnH. If it couldn't keep up with it then, why nerf it? 13:33, 15 May 2009 (UTC) :I imagine they just listen to who screams the loudest. Alot of arena necros and mesmers hate PnH.-- 15:46, 15 May 2009 (UTC) ::Yeah, this elite made a lot of elite hexes absolutely useless in several forms of PvP.--[[User:Darksyde_Never_Again|'Darksyde']] 01:40, 16 May 2009 (UTC) :::Ty, Anet. :::At darkside, it also failed to do what it was implemented to do- stop hexway (since ANet would never, y'know, try to fix the problem itself). So whatever. --Shadowcrest 03:33, 16 May 2009 (UTC) ::::It's still viable, I'm pretty sure, at least for AB and RA. I'll still going to run it.-- 00:36, 22 May 2009 (UTC) Template Is there someone that could fix the template of this skill? I tried to fill in the disable information while taking the template of mark of protection as an example, but apparently I did something wrong in the process since the skills that'll be disabled aren't showing in the disable article. Mystzombie 15:31, 14 June 2009 (UTC)